The following are excerpts from an interview with Theravada Bhikkhu Ven. Ajahn Suchart Abhijato Maha Thera of Thailand. The Maha Thera is well known worldwide for his effective Dhamma teaching methods and meditation practice.
Q: Can you define Chuti Citta (death consciousness) and Patisandi Citta (rebirth consciousness)? Isn’t there an intermediate consciousness between Chuti Citta and Patisandi Citta ?
Ven. Ajahn Suchart
Abhijato Maha Thera
A: Do you mean the state between the Citta departing from the old body and entering the new one? The Citta can be in heaven or hell depending on the good or bad Kamma it accumulated while still alive. This is the period when one transitions to heaven, hell, or different spiritual levels of existence to pay for one’s Kamma.
Q: Does it mean that there is an intermediate state between Chuti Citta and the Patisandi Citta?
A: Yes. The state between the two depends on the good and the bad Kamma. If you have performed more good Kamma than bad, your Citta will be a happy one, experiencing a state of heaven. However, if you have done more bad Kamma than good, your Citta will experience more dukkha than happiness. In such cases, you may end up in hell, as a hungry ghost, or in a similar state of existence.
Q: If a person who has performed many good deeds throughout their lifetime experiences a negative Chuti Citta and is reborn in an unfavourable realm, can they achieve a favourable rebirth soon due to their past good deeds?
A: Yes, rebirth comes eventually after the good or bad Kamma cancels each other out so that neither the good nor the bad Kamma has any effect on the Citta. Then the Citta will be waiting for a new body. When the Citta is reborn, it depends on whether the Citta had more good or bad Kamma in the past. Good or bad Kamma will then decide what kind of birth you will have—a good or a bad birth.
Q: Is it correct to define the body as a vehicle and the mind as a temporary passenger? What would be the best way to explain the difference between the mind and the body?
A: The mind is like the user of a handphone, and the body is like the handphone itself. They are two separate things—the phone and the user. The mind is the user, and the body is the phone. The user does not die when the phone dies. Instead, the user will simply go and buy a new phone. This is when rebirth occurs.
Q: How can we determine whether a friendship is beneficial or harmful to us
A: If the friendship causes you problems, then it is not a good one. If it does not cause you any problems, then it is a good friendship.
Q: Should a true friend always encourage us to follow the religious path?
A: There are different types of people, and they will lead you to whatever they enjoy doing. If they like partying, they will take you to parties with them. If they enjoy shopping, they will take you shopping. If they prefer going to a monastery, they will invite you to join them there. The Buddha said you must learn to choose the right friends, and the right friends are those who go to the monastery. This is true Buddhism because the monastery is the place where you purify yourself and rid yourself of suffering and defilements.
Q: How does Buddhism define unconditional compassion? How can we practise unconditional compassion?
A: We do not choose whom to be compassionate towards; we must show compassion to everyone, to all beings. But this does not mean that we must help everyone. When taking action, you need to assess how much you can do and how much help a person truly needs. This may also vary from person to person.
Q: How can we cultivate a more understanding attitude?
A: You need to know the truth, who is to blame and who is not. That’s all.
Q: Sometimes, certain people make us feel uncomfortable. So, how can we deal with them?
A: You have to see them like the weather. Sometimes, the weather can make you uncomfortable, but you learn to live with it, right? Sometimes it rains, and it may be uncomfortable to go out, but you have to accept the rain. So, you have to accept uncomfortable people you come across because you can’t always choose them. If you can avoid them, do so, but if you can’t avoid them and have to live with them, then you must practise equanimity—Upekkha.
Q: If their behaviour is disturbing, should we tell them? For example, if a person is making loud noises and creating a disturbance, what should we do?
A: Well, you have to consider the outcome of your actions—whether it will achieve what you want or not. Sometimes, instead of improving the situation, it can make things worse. The person may just get louder. It might be better to stay quiet and accept the consequence – that this is a part of your life, a part of your destiny.
Q: What does ‘I’ or ‘me’ represent in Buddhism? Does it refer to the mind? What does ‘I’ mean?
A: This is just a concept—a concept created by the mind, the delusion of the mind. It’s like two trees, both calling themselves ‘you’ and ‘me.’ But in reality, the two trees are simply trees. There is no ‘me’ or ‘you’ in the tree. The person who possesses this body is like a tree as well. They create the concept that ‘this body is me’ and ‘that body is you.’
Q: When we perform a meritorious deed, if there is no person called ‘I’ or ‘me,’ who acquires the merit? Is it the mind?
A: Yes. It is the mind which performs the action and the mind reaps the results of the action – good or bad feelings.
Q: When we say that there is no ‘self,’ does it mean that the mind exists, but there is no body and that the body is not the mind or the ‘self’?
A: There is no ‘self’ in the Five Elements. The body is made up of the Four Elements—water, fire, wind, and earth. The mind is the Knowing Element. These elements combine to create a human being, and then the illusion in the mind creates the concept that this ‘body’ is ‘me.’ The mind is like a fiction writer; it can create anything. It creates the concept of the ‘self.’ In reality, there is no one who ‘thinks.’ Thinking simply happens, but the mind creates the illusion that there is an ‘I’ behind the thinking. ‘I think,’ ‘I feel,’ ‘I move the body,’ ‘I tell the body what to do,’ and so on. But in truth, there is no ‘I.’ It is just action—thinking happens, and the body is directed, but there is no l ‘I’.
Q: So, in short, is it correct to say that the mind exists and the body does not exist?
A: The body does exist, but it does not exist permanently. One day, it will break apart. The four elements that make up the body will separate and return to their original state. Water will return to water, fire to fire, wind to wind, and earth to earth. Then, the body will no longer exist. It is like a bubble; when the bubble bursts, the body is gone.
Q: The mind exists until we end this Samsara, but the same body does not, right?
A: Well, the body does not exist after death. It will disappear at the end of the breath. When you stop breathing, the dissolution begins, and the components/elements (water, fire, air, earth) that make up the body will then separate.
Q: The mind is also impermanent?
A: The mind itself is permanent, like the Four elements. They are indestructible. You cannot destroy the fire, water, wind, or earth elements. Similarly, you cannot destroy the knowing element. But the knowing element can change. Within the knowing element, thoughts, feelings, and emotions constantly change.
Q: Can the mind truly observe itself?
A: Yes. Through meditation and mindfulness. When you have mindfulness, you can watch your mind and what is going on inside it. Right now, your mind is not observing itself; instead, it is driven by your defilements, focusing on external things—such as the body, money, and everything in the world. Such a person does not understand the nature of the mind because they are not looking at it. To understand the mind, you need mindfulness to bring the mind back inward. Right now, the mind is directed outward, towards sensual objects. Mindfulness helps pull the mind back inside. When the mind enters into the Jhanas, it is turned inward. Only then can you see what is happening inside the mind.
Q: Is it the same mind that carries us through Samsara?
A: Yes, it continues, moving into a new body. When the old body dies, the mind seeks a new one. It’s like changing cars. When your old car no longer runs, you buy a new one. You keep changing cars, but you are the driver—the driver never dies. It’s the car that dies. When the car breaks down and can no longer be driven, you buy a new one. But the driver continues.
Q: As you always say, the mind is like a fiction writer. There is no self.
A: Yes, there is no self. It is not real; it is just fiction. “You” and “me” are simply products of the thinking of “your” and “my” mind. I think “I am,” therefore “I am.” I think “you are,” therefore “you are.” But if you stop thinking, “you” and “I” disappear. Just meditate and observe. When you stop the mind from thinking, you will find that “I am” is gone. There is no “me” anymore. When your body becomes calm and you stop thinking, what remains is just knowing.
– Ven. Ajahn Suchart Abhijato Maha Thera was born on November 2, 1947. Having completed his degree in Civil Engineering at California State University, Fresno, USA, he returned to his motherland where he designed an ice cream parlour for a brief stint.
Quite soon, inspired by a Dhamma book, he decided to go in search of “true happiness,” to find inner peace through the practice of Buddhist meditation. He became a bhikkhu at the age of 27 and received ordination at Wat Bovornives in Bangkok on February 19, 1975, with Somdet Phra Ñanasarivara, the late Supreme Patriarch (Somdet Phra Sangharaja), as his Preceptor.
Ven. Ajahn Suchart Abhijato Maha Thera resides in Wat Yansangwararam, Thailand.
